Do we miss Mr Burley?

I thought some of the comments on here were quite amusing....
http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1301

I enjoyed his first full season with us a great deal but don't know what happened after that. Maybe he lost heart when the better players were sold from under him. I have some sympathy. The expectations were so high and if you are not given ther tools to do the job you are just set up to fail.

Still, I don't know what all the gleee is about. Our greatest manager, Sir Alf Ramsey, lost games too. Early days.

I have no problem with George Burely and wish him well. I certainly can't understand the hero status that Pearson recieced when he only won three matches, but wish him well too.

Both have moved on and we have a new management structure in place. Don't really see the point in looking back.

Burley, for all of his faults, had a good win ration record with us, the best since the war...not sure what else he could have done. Things work or they don't. For teams to be successful all elemenst must work in harmony, Burley did not have that luxury.

Would have been interested to see what Lowe, Woodward and Burley could have done if given time, but we shall never know.

Still, as I say, we have a new set up, so let's get behind them and hope that they can provide the goods (until the next lot of changes!!!)

It's Burley's fault that we are where we are now. He spent loads of money on not very good players and paid them far too much. Then when Scotland came in for him he left and left us sliding down the table towards relegation and still thinking we were trying to get in the play-offs

I dislike him alot un-motivated knob cheese

George Burley flattered to deceive, we were led to believe that he "knew" the player market well and had the right sort of contacts to bring in key players. So the board gave him ample funds to do just that. When the dust had settled we realised what a con this had been, the 'experienced' players brought in were in fact mostly duds and misfits, rejected by other clubs for their ineptitude and laziness and frankly being worn out.

The sad thing is that Burley was conned by the clubs who sold him these players, in fact they couldn't get rid of them fast enough and must have thought all their Christmas's had coma at once when they off-loaded the likes of Rasiak, Euell, John and Skacel for cash!

It doesn't work the other way of course and now we are stuck with them. So Burley was hopeless in the transfer market, dismantled and wrecked a team that had played reasonably successfully in the premiership and substituted for them a rabble of long ball incompetents who succeeded only in bringing the club to the point of ruin.

That's the indictment, M'Lord!

Mr Burley was only effective when he had the support of a decent assistant, namely Glyn Snodin. Otherwise he was a disgrace, and his appalling training methods and the total lack of fitness for our players last season had to be seen to be believed. He is just full of excuses, when the reality is he has no idea any more how to motivate players. Sorry Scotland, but you will take a while to recover from the mess that Mr Burley will leave you in.

Scotland haven't started their campaign too well have they? I think Burley's on the downward curve of his career now. He started ok at Saints, but his hunger disappeared along with the parachute payments.

No I do not miss George. The rot had already started before he left and soon Scotland will see that he is not as good as he seems to have led some people to believe.
I do believe though that a manager has to have complete backing from his board. Which beggars the question. Will we ever have a manager that can return us to our previous heights while Lowe and his cronies are in situ.

SFC Forever wrote:No I do not miss George. The rot had already started before he left and soon Scotland will see that he is not as good as he seems to have led some people to believe.
I do believe though that a manager has to have complete backing from his board. Which beggars the question. Will we ever have a manager that can return us to our previous heights while Lowe and his cronies are in situ.

Lowe and his cronies?

I normally associate the word crony with a criminal and personally do not deem financial prudence as a criminal offence (possible under-investment in other peoples eyes, money spent on an academy and training facilities in mine). I also feel that JP and Wotte have the 100% backing of the board, as they are the people Lowe wanted (and an idea he's spent quite a few years harvesting).

I also believe that the players Lowe brought in, such as Holmes and Scheiderlin, have proved quite shrewd. Morgan the most perhaps, which was a product of Lowe's relationship with Prost. Gasmi, may be another too, but the jury is still out while he recovers from a broken metatarsal.

I can't think of anything but positives since Lowe has returned, yet you offer the stigma of "Lowe and his cronies". Why?

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Lowe was ousted by Wilde and his friends(as you dislike the word cronies).
Lowe was not bought out during the overthrowing.
It is possible that when Killer was injured 4 years ago the purchase of a decent defender would have kept us at the top level. For the sake of 2,3 or even 4 million we have lost a hell of a lot more.
You will argue about the new stadium and the acadamy. You will site the superb facilities at Staplewood.

If we were going to get into such deep financial straits we could have stayed at the Dell for a bit longer. That plot of land was supremely valuable because of it's location. Though we used to moan about the ground at times it had become our fortress. Planning permission had been granted for the new stadium so a slight delay would not have been out of the question. I also feel that when built the ground should have been given a larger gate possibility. What would have cost 5 or 6 million then will cost a lot more now.

Wilde was ousted after a short spell as his friends and associates had bitten more of than they could manage. Players came and went unless of such stature that nobody wanted them.
Wilde and Lowe, newly found allies, found their way back ousting the original Wilde chum group.

You can take a mule to the best stables in the land but you can not make it a worthwhile proposition. It will not run faster than a higher quality horse even if the horse is trained down the road in a smaller less expensively built stableyard. Only players with quality will have enough nous to be helped in such surroundings to improve enough to qualify as topline players. Whilst you will help the lesser talented they will still be lesser talented.

Lowe may have come to steady the ship and I sincerely hope that he can. However a large portion of blame must lay in his corner for where we are today. Agreed the last lot have made the situation worse. I am pleased with what he has started but still feel that he could have done more.
Killer and Perry need back up and urgently. After the late bid for Gerrard one must believe that Jan has said we need some help. Otherwise why bid? Only question is why so late? Just about every supporter knows that we are short in the strong player stakes.
I could go on but will ask if you know the true meaning of the word CRONY? As you may note I have used several of the words included in the dictionary. I have no known association with criminals etc and find no reference to your suggestion that my use of the word implies such when talking about our friandly board members. I must admit that I was a little taken aback by your suggestion. Disagree by all means as to how Lowe and Wilde are doing or not. I welcome constructive criticism and hope to get plenty more before the year is over.
For me the biggest problem is trying to figure out why some members of the squad were not picked for certain games. Cork being the obvious one. With all of us team selection is easy from the stands.

teamsaint wrote:It's Burley's fault that we are where we are now. He spent loads of money on not very good players and paid them far too much. Then when Scotland came in for him he left and left us sliding down the table towards relegation and still thinking we were trying to get in the play-offs

I have to say i agree with this comment.. Burley spent 7 Million (in his only full season) this was the most in the league that season and should of pratically given us promotion instead we just finished 6th .. yes we shouldn't have put all are eggs in one basket and prayed for promotion but irrelevant of that Burley should of delivered more.

He left us in tatters a unbelievably high wage bill for are financial power... The blame obviously isn't all at his feet and his hands where tied in the last season because of classic/comical financial mis management which is only eclipsed by Leeds but lets not get into that...The fact remains if he had delivered and got us promotion we would not be in this situation now (scraping to survive administration and and stay in the championship)
Im not negative though i have full faith in Jan the man and the youngsters and good solid mid table this season and next season the players will have got use to this new football system so can only improve

SFC Forever wrote:I could go on but will ask if you know the true meaning of the word CRONY? As you may note I have used several of the words included in the dictionary.

Why do you insult my intelligence?

(a) Definition of Crony:
"Close friend; Trusted companion or partner in a criminal organization"
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crony

So take that you mother fucker! ;)

Anyway, back to your post in point. I agree on some of your points, but I also believe that Lowe thought M.Svensson would recover before the end of the season and therefore forfeited on purchasing a new "first choice" centre back. Perhaps that faith ultimately let us down, so he signed Jakobsson who wasn't really up to scratch.

Didn't we have a number of injuries that season, causing Wigley to inherit a fairly weak squad (after Sturrock ran off), which arguably attributed to some bad results, giving the fans no confidence in Wigley and thus forcing Lowe to get another man in? I think some of these factors (i.e. very bad luck with injuries last-minute goals etc.) contributed to our downfall, rather more than Lowe and his "cronies" as you put it.

Come on now boys....let's be nice to each other! This isn't SW....

Hear hear to that one Mr Admin.

I did wink after saying mother fucker because I didn't really mean it. I love all you guys, in a non-homo/fellow fan/family kind of way.

We agree on some points. I just totally disagree with how people blame Lowe as the absolute cause of all our troubles. I also took offence to the word crony, which I think is quite understandable. Saying he wouldn't give his own man 100% was illogical and asking if I understand words found in the dictionary is completely insulting. Especially as I was correct with my definition. Completely justified use of mother fucker actually, even though I didn't really mean it in the slightest. ;)

I'm now confused by what I meant that last wink to mean... ;)

:lol:

OK..i think,

Hopefully we are all mates again! If there are any more rows I propose to run a poll so other members can vote on who they think is the guilty party, the guilty one will receive a 'yellow card' which will be recorded on the Yellow Card topic in the Personal Stuff area.

Nah, that's far too conditioned. This is a forum, people are meant to be arguing their points across.

It's extremely obvious when people are purposely trying to cause outright offence and are also being over argumentative (think Alpine). These people, rather than being yellow carded, should just be banned and offered counselling. Mainly to aid them back into civilised society, where they can hopefully find a nice woman and no longer need to upset people on the internet.

My and SFC_forever's debate wasn't even at the handbag stage. I'm sure they'll be far more fireworks when we adopt some of the more controversial users from other sites! :pirat:

Lets call it a draw Bloop. I am sure other members knew what I meant .
Killer will be out for a long time was the verdict after his injury. The board knew and bided their time. Left it too late and in my eye panicked by getting someone unable to take his place. Other teams have reacted quickly when a key player was injured and we didn't.
The managers are picked by the board so I guess Lowe cannot be held totally responsible. Now the board has changed again we have to wait to see how much cash they can find if needed. I still think a share issue would help sort out some of the problem.
Jan has obviously told the board that he needs a player or two. The simple fact is that they have left it much too late to buy. How about getting Gerrard in on loan and letting Wallsall have someone from our lot. This with the promise of a purchase in January. Even if for a bit more than we offered. Would be a way arond the deadline.
You may have noticed that I can ramble on a tad. I like all on hear have one thing in common. EVERYONE OF US LOVES OUR TEAM UNRESERVEDLY. WIN OR LOSE WE KEEP OUR COLOURS AND WEAR THEM WITH PRIDE.Unlike a lot of goodtime supporters at other clubs.
One thing I will admit to is that our board is trying to steady the ship. Mistakes have been made and I will leave it there. I only wish that our board would give more information out to us the supporters because that would also help to ease if not stop the sniping. Their silence only fuels the rumour mongers who enjoy stirring it up. I hope that sometimes the board remembers that we are the club. Without us there is no club.
If we were to go down the pan how will you take your about to arrive baby to a game with the same pride. I will be taking my two youngest in near future when I feel that they are old enough.They wear the colours and gladly tell everyone what they signify.

Agreed... truce! Now come here big guy.... :hugs:

Baby bloop (bb) will be coming along to games under 2 primary conditions:
1) Mummy lets bb go, and
2) bb wants to go.

I've got a feeling I'll be the only football fan in the house, as mummy really REALLY hates it!

No what it is like but I'm working on it. Have finally been given the okay to take 4 yo to a game after his birthday in 2 weeks. Daughters only 3 so she will have to wait.

Awww......love the hugs!! But what are we gonna do about baby's mum hating football???

Would it help if Beckham took us over?? ;)

It's because of people like Beckham that she loathes it so much. Now, if Simon Cowell was involved and rather than kick a ball each player had to sing in front of judges... Well, I'd be skint paying for family season tickets and away matches!!!!!

Hmmm....think Simon Cowell would be interested in buying Saints??

Might work and he's certainly made enough dosh from destroying the music industry.

Come on Simon, you've ruined Saturday evening's in the bloop house, why not help our club by paying off our debts? Hope he heard......

Simon Cowell but with Danii. How about Getting Craig David and a few local singists(baby daughters talk) to do a show before a game. That would bring some girls round.